In conversation with Locus of Occult’s Daniel King & Emma Hastil

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Stories, updates, and interviews from Burrow

In conversation with Locus of Occult’s Daniel King & Emma Hastil

In conversation with Locus of Occult’s Daniel King & Emma Hastil

On making their way to the Rockaways

Daniel: I’m from Sydney, Australia. I moved to New York about 13 years ago. I'm a fashion photographer and art photographer, and lived in the city for about 10 years and the rest I’ve been in Rockaway.

Emma: I’m from a really small town in Wisconsin originally. I've also lived in New York for over 10 years, mostly in Bed-Stuy, and now Rockaway. My background was in fashion design, that’s what I went to school for, and then I worked in graphic design and branding prior to starting our business.

On why every skill learned never goes to waste when building your own business

Daniel: I’d always been tinkering, making little things here and there, drawing and painting just as a side hobby — Emma’s always been drawing. But in starting Locus of Occult, we just learned that every skill we've learned is so essential. I mean, designing and having fun, that's the easy part. But the running the business, and Emma's really good at all the hustling, every skill we’ve both acquired over a decade is needed.

Emma: I think the challenge is that it's just a learning process — I mean every step has been a learning curve. I knew I wanted to do the majority of the business as small-batch and made-to-order because I didn't want to hold merchandise and I didn't want to over-create. But it's been a learning curve because of the materials we use. We have to allow time for curing and drying before each step until they’re final. We definitely started off thinking we can do one thing in a week, and it's like no, we really can’t, we have to wait for it to dry before you can sand, before you can seal it. So there’s a learning every step of the way.

On experimentation and getting your hands dirty in the name of functional art

Daniel: We just found our identity through making products, and just moving on from each time. We were doing catch-all trays, which we don't do anymore. And just learning the industry and what actually wholesale is and seeing what's feasible, and realizing the ceramics industry is a whole different beast. The margins aren't that high and there's so much competition. And we just wanted to build a brand that's more creative and branches out. A lot of it was starting off with what do we want for our apartment, making stuff that we would actually want instead of thinking what people would want. It was functional design, things that you can use around the house.

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Emma: A lot of the inspiration is how can we redesign things that have been designed for function but make them look like art. As we grow and work more together, we figure out more of what we like, more of what we haven't, fails and wins, and we grow in that way. It will evolve but a lot of it is just experimenting.

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Daniel: We made a huge mess for a few months. And lots of trips to the hardware store and lots of silicon and pouring. We bled for the first month.

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Emma: We were sanding the tips of our fingers off.

On experimentation and getting your hands dirty in the name of functional art

Daniel: We just found our identity through making products, and just moving on from each time. We were doing catch-all trays, which we don't do anymore. And just learning the industry and what actually wholesale is and seeing what's feasible, and realizing the ceramics industry is a whole different beast. The margins aren't that high and there's so much competition. And we just wanted to build a brand that's more creative and branches out. A lot of it was starting off with what do we want for our apartment, making stuff that we would actually want instead of thinking what people would want. It was functional design, things that you can use around the house.

‎

Emma: A lot of the inspiration is how can we redesign things that have been designed for function but make them look like art. As we grow and work more together, we figure out more of what we like, more of what we haven't, fails and wins, and we grow in that way. It will evolve but a lot of it is just experimenting.

‎

Daniel: We made a huge mess for a few months. And lots of trips to the hardware store and lots of silicon and pouring. We bled for the first month.

‎

Emma: We were sanding the tips of our fingers off.

Pictured here: Range 5-Piece Sectional Lounger

On experimentation and getting your hands dirty in the name of functional art

Daniel: We just found our identity through making products, and just moving on from each time. We were doing catch-all trays, which we don't do anymore. And just learning the industry and what actually wholesale is and seeing what's feasible, and realizing the ceramics industry is a whole different beast. The margins aren't that high and there's so much competition. And we just wanted to build a brand that's more creative and branches out. A lot of it was starting off with what do we want for our apartment, making stuff that we would actually want instead of thinking what people would want. It was functional design, things that you can use around the house.

Emma: A lot of the inspiration is how can we redesign things that have been designed for function but make them look like art. As we grow and work more together, we figure out more of what we like, more of what we haven't, fails and wins, and we grow in that way. It will evolve but a lot of it is just experimenting.

Daniel: We made a huge mess for a few months. And lots of trips to the hardware store and lots of silicon and pouring. We bled for the first month.

Emma: We were sanding the tips of our fingers off.

On respecting the process enough to break the rules

Daniel: I think the best benefit is we're not trying to tick all these boxes. My job as a photographer is really spontaneous. So I try and bring that into making things and just go make a mess. But the reality is with ceramics and the stuff we make, there’s a lot of repetition involved and a lot of trial and error. So that's a big thing I've been learning, how to redo things over and over and try and make them better. In photography, you've got one shot. With design, if you overthink it and end up cutting it down, it’ll just be a cube where everything’s trimmed off. Where Emma’s really good at the design process and the steps that it takes. So I think we work well together in that respect.

Emma: I think I come with more of the process in me, maybe because I did go to design school, and then Dan has more of the spontaneity and creativity. It's a really good match because I think, unfortunately, design school sometimes stifles your creativity with too much process. So, I think it’s a good blend of process and working within the limits, then exploding those limits and seeing what else we can do.

Daniel: We have limitations here about what we can make, prototypes and fabrication. We’ve got a few tools but we just make it work and I think with limitations sometimes it makes you more creative.

On finding balance when the lines are blurred

Daniel: I think living at the beach is a nice way to disconnect. We live in a big apartment in Rockaway, and it has a big spare room to make a workshop. It’s always been my dream to have a workshop at home. It was really just the dark winter days where Emma was like ‘let's do this’.

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Emma: It was something I always wanted to do but I never had. I always worked a lot to support living in the city and I also never had a partner that I wanted to start something. So the pandemic gave us a weird opportunity, and our relationship opened up an opportunity for it all to work out. I think we struggled with the work balance because we do have a room so we can shut the door, but learning to shut the door and having time away — like weekends and breaks — are necessary, especially for creativeness and to get your ideas and juices flowing. You have to step back. But we both love being outside during summer, and doing activities like surfing and boogie boarding, so I think that made us prioritize that balance better. But it was something we struggled with in the winter.

On finding balance when the lines are blurred

Daniel: I think living at the beach is a nice way to disconnect. We live in a big apartment in Rockaway, and it has a big spare room to make a workshop. It’s always been my dream to have a workshop at home. It was really just the dark winter days where Emma was like ‘let's do this’.

‎

Emma: It was something I always wanted to do but I never had. I always worked a lot to support living in the city and I also never had a partner that I wanted to start something. So the pandemic gave us a weird opportunity, and our relationship opened up an opportunity for it all to work out. I think we struggled with the work balance because we do have a room so we can shut the door, but learning to shut the door and having time away — like weekends and breaks — are necessary, especially for creativeness and to get your ideas and juices flowing. You have to step back. But we both love being outside during summer, and doing activities like surfing and boogie boarding, so I think that made us prioritize that balance better. But it was something we struggled with in the winter.

On big moments, and staying true to your vision

Daniel: When Wendy Goodman from New York Magazine came over, that was a big moment because we worked so hard up to that point.

Emma: She was so excited and enthusiastic about what we have made. Because of the pandemic, we haven't shared our work with many people in real life, so that was an incredibly rewarding experience. It felt like, okay, we're not crazy, other people actually dig this, too.

Daniel: But when we got a really big order from Liberty we thought, oh no, we actually have to make all of this, with one mould.

Emma: We didn't want to pour another silicone mould because we didn't want to waste the money, but we also realized while making 50 of the same thing, that’s not really the avenue we want to go down. It's really great for exposure, but in terms of the labor and the margins and the repetition, it's not the dream business that we are trying to make for ourselves. So that was a pivoting moment.

Daniel: But without getting investors and doing it from the ground up, the company is just constantly pivoting, and we're just finding our direction day by day. I find that really exciting.

On the importance of creating an eco-friendly business

Emma: I worked in fashion and I know how much gets thrown out, it’s the same with a lot of manufacturing. Even though we were using eco-friendly materials, at the beginning of our own business, we had a lot of manufacturing waste and then we figured out how to use only reusable cups and reusable spatulas. It’s important for all businesses. It should be a value and if it's not, it raises concern for me.

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Daniel: Deep down we really care. I think all businesses should be doing that and it's good for business, but we actually care. We did a collaboration with Surfrider Foundation, with a “Clean The Beach” tie-dye shirt that’s really cool.

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Emma: Their foundation organizes a lot of cleanups around the New York City shorelines, which we live right next to. So we see after every single weekend how dirty the beaches are here, so that was something we really wanted to do and give back for.

On the importance of creating an eco-friendly business

Emma: I worked in fashion and I know how much gets thrown out, it’s the same with a lot of manufacturing. Even though we were using eco-friendly materials, at the beginning of our own business, we had a lot of manufacturing waste and then we figured out how to use only reusable cups and reusable spatulas. It’s important for all businesses. It should be a value and if it's not, it raises concern for me.

‎

Daniel: Deep down we really care. I think all businesses should be doing that and it's good for business, but we actually care. We did a collaboration with Surfrider Foundation, with a “Clean The Beach” tie-dye shirt that’s really cool.

‎

Emma: Their foundation organizes a lot of cleanups around the New York City shorelines, which we live right next to. So we see after every single weekend how dirty the beaches are here, so that was something we really wanted to do and give back for.

On finding the perfect blue couch, and the perfect couch for Blue

Emma: Our old couch was supported by a wooden post on one side. It didn't look cool. We really wanted a colorful couch, a blue couch, that was a very specific want. And then we have a large living room with huge windows, so we really wanted something that could wrap around that space and make it more inviting, but also a place where we can have friends over and hang out. Building it was fun. I love building furniture. We actually used some of the thin wood that came in the packaging to make prototypes.

Daniel: The packaging was good. The instructions are really easy to use.

Emma: I’ll be honest, the first day we got it we set it up and were so happy. And then we left the apartment to go somewhere, came back, and Blue (our dog) had thrown up all over it! It was a big patch and I was like, what are we going to do? But we got it off and it looks brand new. You'd never know. I'd say it's pretty durable and that's a really good thing because we make a big mess in our apartment.

On the importance of creating an eco-friendly business

Emma: I worked in fashion and I know how much gets thrown out, it’s the same with a lot of manufacturing. Even though we were using eco-friendly materials, at the beginning of our own business, we had a lot of manufacturing waste and then we figured out how to use only reusable cups and reusable spatulas. It’s important for all businesses. It should be a value and if it's not, it raises concern for me.

Daniel: Deep down we really care. I think all businesses should be doing that and it's good for business, but we actually care. We did a collaboration with Surfrider Foundation, with a “Clean The Beach” tie-dye shirt that’s really cool.

Emma: Their foundation organizes a lot of cleanups around the New York City shorelines, which we live right next to. So we see after every single weekend how dirty the beaches are here, so that was something we really wanted to do and give back for.

On finding the perfect blue couch, and the perfect couch for Blue

Emma: Our old couch was supported by a wooden post on one side. It didn't look cool. We really wanted a colorful couch, a blue couch, that was a very specific want. And then we have a large living room with huge windows, so we really wanted something that could wrap around that space and make it more inviting, but also a place where we can have friends over and hang out. Building it was fun. I love building furniture. We actually used some of the thin wood that came in the packaging to make prototypes.

Daniel: The packaging was good. The instructions are really easy to use.

Emma: I’ll be honest, the first day we got it we set it up and were so happy. And then we left the apartment to go somewhere, came back, and Blue (our dog) had thrown up all over it! It was a big patch and I was like, what are we going to do? But we got it off and it looks brand new. You'd never know. I'd say it's pretty durable and that's a really good thing because we make a big mess in our apartment.

Pictured here: Range 5-Piece Sectional Lounger

Pictured here: Range 5-Piece Sectional Lounger

And, a lightning round, starting with Rockaway, Bed-Stuy, or the Lower East Side?

Emma: Oh, that’s hard. Rockaway.

Daniel: Rockaway, definitely

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80s, 90s, or 00s?

Daniel: 80s

Emma: I love the 80s but it's hard to say l I'm nostalgic for a generation I didn't even live through, so I might have to say 90s for that one, but it's a tough tie.

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Clashing or complementary?

Emma: I like clashing.

Daniel: I say clashing as well.

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Favorite takeout or delivery food when you just want to bliss out on your couch?

Both: Ooh, Chinese.

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Daniel King and Emma Hastil are the creative force behind Locus of Occult, an artist-run apparel and décor brand. You can find their work here, and follow them on Instagram. All photos featured are courtesy of Daniel King.